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Sederunt: [George Hay, viscount of Dupplin], chancellor, [William Douglas, earl of Morton], treasurer, [William Graham, earl of Menteith], president, [Thomas Hamilton, earl of Haddington], privy seal, [George Seton, earl of] Winton, [Alexander Livingstone, earl of] Linlithgow, [Colin MacKenzie, earl of] Seaforth, [William Crichton, viscount of] Ayr, [John Erskine], lord Erskine, [Robert Melville], lord Melville, [Sir John Hamilton of Magdalens], clerk register, [Sir Thomas Hope of Craighall], advocate, [Sir George Elphinstone of Blythswood], justice clerk.
Together with the commissioners underwritten nominated by the convention of estates for the treaty regarding the fishing, namely: [John Leslie], earl of Rothes, [John Erskine, earl of] Buchan and [John Stewart, earl of] Carrick, [John Leslie], bishop of the Isles, the lairds [Sir James MacGill] of Cranstoun-Riddel, [Sir James Lockhart of ] Lee, [younger] and [William Drummond of] Riccarton, George and Alexander Bruce, Alexander Clerk [of Stenton and Pittencrieff], Thomas Haliburton, Master Vidas Lawson, Master James Cockburn, John Cowan, Master John Hay, Master Alexander Guthrie, Gabriel Cunningham, John MacKieson, James Watson, John Williamson, Robert Alexander and Robert Richardson.
[A1630/7/62]*[print] [email] [cite] [preceding] [following]
The which day William, earl of Menteith, the president of his majesty's council, reported to the nobility, council and estates presently convened the proceedings of the commissioners appointed for the treaty of the common fishing, and therewithal he produced instructions sent down by his majesty concerning the fishing, with the commissioners' observations made thereupon and reply made by the English commissioners thereto; which being read, the estates ordain a copy of the answers and reply to be given to every estate to be considered of by them and they to report to the public meeting their opinion and judgement concerning the same upon Monday next in the forenoon at 10 o'clock. The estates present warned in the acts.
Follows the observations upon the general instructions by way of objection:
Whereas by the instructions sent by his majesty to [Sir William Alexander of Menstrie], his secretary of Scotland, concerning the erection of a general fishing, it would appear that the said general fishing to be erected is understood of those fishings whereof the benefit is only reaped by strangers and does in no way touch those fishings which are enjoyed by the natives of any of the kingdoms. It is necessary that the particular fishings within every kingdom which are only enjoyed by the natives be made known, that the laws and freedoms of every kingdom may be preserved, as is contained in the said instructions.
It is desired that it may be cleared what these fishings are which are called common benefits and cannot dividedly be enjoyed.
To understand what several undertakings will be for this general fishing in England and in Ireland.
It is desired that the Scottish adventurers of the society be naturalised in England, seeing the naturalisation which the English are to have in Scotland is equivalent to naturalisation in England.
It would be considered in what manner the return for the fishes exported out of each kingdom shall be made to the kingdom wherein they are taken.
As to the government of the association it is fit before it be treated of that the preceding articles be cleared and the several undertakings agreed, that all the undertakers may join together for perfecting thereof.
As to that article for building one or more free burghs in the Isle of Lewis, there can be no answer given thereto until the next meeting of the estates, in regard it is against the standing right of regal burghs already erected and of others having interest, who in reason must be heard before any opinion be given therein.
It is thus subscribed, W[illiam] Alexander
Follows the answers of the English commissioners to the preceding objections:
For the first and second articles, his majesty's royal and just intention is (as we conceive) most clear in his instructions not to take away or derogate from the particular and personal grants and rights of any of his subjects, whose laws and liberties he proposes to maintain, but in all his kingdoms, in places near and remote, where common fishing is or may be used by any of his people, that every brother of this company made capable according to the respective laws of each kingdom may freely fish there. This mutual participation being the bond of union and sole means to recover his majesty's right and power at sea, and to enrich all his subjects and those chiefly where the greatest fishings are.
For the third, we understand his majesty's gracious favour to that kingdom to have so large extent that howsoever he desires for their advantage their proportion may be considerable, yet he will not press them above their own measure, not doubting but it will be answerable to the estimation he has of them, and assuring that in England and Ireland the proportion shall be answerable to the abilities of either kingdoms and the greatness of the work, which must be overcome by degrees and cannot at first be rated to the full otherwise than is in the instructions generally set down.
The difference between naturalising and free endenizing is not important in the matter of fishing, which is the only use the company will make of them. And when a parliament shall be called, the brothers of this company will probably find no difficulty to obtain what they desire.
Touching the returns to be made for the fishes exported, his majesty will provide according to his wisdom for his own indemnity and interest; and for the public profit it cannot be doubted that according to the increase of trade by the fishing in each kingdom the benefit of their returns will respectively increase.
The government of all companies in these kingdoms can have no reference to a popular agreement of all the undertakers, their liberties and powers depending wholly upon the king's grace and gift, which in this is the more to be respected for that in his instructions he has expressed his gracious purpose with admission of advice from his council in each kingdom in any thing that may require further consideration, and we doubt not but the lords and states in Scotland will concur with such a government as shall be most conformable to the crown we live under and obey.
For the last additional article concerning the king's interest in erecting free and regal burghs, though we are persuaded that his majesty will not strain his prerogative royal nor exercise other power in this than the laws of that kingdom have put into his hands, yet we will not take upon us to answer you in this point but refer you to his majesty for more full satisfaction, only wishing that his majesty's most royal, just and clear intentions, as they have conducted ours, so may prevail with yours not to question, but unanimously to advance and settle so worthy, so profitable and so important a work to the empire of these kingdoms as we are confident you will endeavour.
Subscribed, W[illiam] Alexander
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The which day William [Graham], earl of Menteith, president of his majesty's privy council, produced to the estates presently convened the two missive letters underwritten, the one whereof is directed from his majesty to the said estates and the other to the lords of privy council, of the which missives the tenor follows:
Charles Rex, right trusty and right well-beloved cousin and councillor, right trusty and well-beloved cousins and councillors, right trusty and trusty and well-beloved councillors, right trusty and trusty and well-beloved, we greet you well. We have found by report of such as were present at your last meeting and by effects of your affection to our service, with which we rest well satisfied and do give you most hearty thanks for the same, assuring you that we will not be wanting in anything that we can contribute to the good of that our ancient kingdom, for which effect some propositions were sent by us to be considered of by you concerning the improving of the fishings there, whereupon you sent (as we required) commissioners hither to treat in that purpose. We have caused them and such as were appointed by us here for that effect to meet and confer together, therein having ourselves heard at length the reasons and grounds for prosecuting of that business, which (as we conceive), if it be providently followed, may prove a work of great consequence for the general good of our whole kingdoms, and more particularly for the benefit of that our ancient kingdom, by the daily improving of trade and shipping therein; and seeing it is not hereby intended that any of your ancient privileges nor benefits formerly enjoyed be in any way hindered but, on the contrary, that your trade, shipping and consequently the strength and glory of the kingdom be increased, these are, therefore, seriously to recommend to you the said purpose as it shall be delivered to you by them who were commissioners to us, that you may consider how this work may be best and speedily done and what towns or plantations are fit to be erected to that purpose. And to the intent you on your part should give that contribution, help and furtherance which is requisite for so good and glorious a work, that you condescend amongst yourselves what help and supply may be expected from thence. And having well considered what is fit to be done upon your parts for advancement of this great work, that commissioners may be sent back with absolute power to conclude therein without any restriction but of our approbation. Which specially recommending to your care, we bid you farewell. Hampton Court, 12 October 1630.
Follows the postscript written with his majesty's hand:
This is a work of so great good to both my kingdoms that I have thought good by these few lines of my own hand seriously to recommend it to you, the furthering or hindering of which will either oblige or disoblige me more than any one business that has happened in my time.
Charles Rex
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Charles Rex, right trusty and well-beloved cousin and councillor, right trusty and well-beloved cousins and councillors, right trusty and well-beloved councillors and trusty and well-beloved councillors, we greet you well. We have found your affection to our service at this last convention of the estates, for which we give you hearty thanks, as touching the propositions sent by us to you concerning the improving of the fishings there. We have caused the commissioners sent thither to treat in that purpose to meet and confer with such as were appointed by us here for that effect, having ourselves heard at length the reasons and grounds for prosecuting of that business, wherein after they have delivered to you what has been debated here at this time. We will you to insist as you have begun to give your best advice and furtherance for bringing a work of so great consequence to the intended perfection, which amongst other good services done by you for the public good of that our ancient kingdom we will account this one of the greatest; and after you have heard the opinion of such of the estates as are to convene for that purpose, we desire you to return commissioners with instructions to treat herein with an absolute power to conclude for avoiding of all delays because the work, for diverse considerations, requires haste. Which, specially recommending to your care, we bid you farewell. From our honour of Hampton Court, 12 October 1630.