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Answeris for the Laird of Lamyngtoun†
It is humblie representit to the kingis majestie and honorabill estates of parliament be Sir Williame Bailzie of Lamingtoune, knight, that he canot be urged to answer to the supplicatioune given in be Generall Major Bailzie aganes him becaus the desyre of that supplicatioune is in effect to tak from him the haill estate and leiveing of Lamingtoun, quhairof he and his predicessores past memorie of man hes richt and hes beine and is in possessioune, quhilk cannot be drawne in questioune at the instance of the supplicant upone his supplicatioun and bair pretendit assertiounes thairin alledgit. Bot if any intres or cleame the supplicant can pretend (as he hes non), the samyn is not competent to be taine to consideratioune be the parliament, seeing thair is ane ordinar judge and ordinar way for this and the lyke caices and swa sould not be hard befoir the parliament.
9 November 1641
Red in presence of the nobilitie.
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Supplicatioun Laird of Lamyngtoun†
To the king's most excellent majestie and richt honorabill estates of parliament, the humble petitione of Sir Williame Bailyie of Lamingtoune, knight.
That quhair the estate and liveing of Lamingtoune hes beine peaceablie bruikit and possest be me, my father, gudshir and grandshir thir thriescoir and ten yeires bygane without any questioune or contraversie moved thairanent or any pairt thairof, and that be vertew of publict infeftmentis haldin of your majestie and confermed in parliament, quhilk peaceable possessioune be the speace of swa many yeires conforme to valide and formall richtis ratefied in parliament as said is be the lawes of the countrie establishes a richt uncontroleable in my persone. Notwithstanding quhairof, Generall Major William Bailyie hes given in ane bill at his instance as alledgit appeirand air to umquhile Williame Bailyie of Lamingtoune, my grandshir, craveing upone certane pretendit formalities of civill law nawayes receaved be the lawis, customes and practick of this kingdome, that the richt of the estate of Lamingtoune maid some thriescoir and ten yeires since be my said umquhile grandshir to Edward Maxwell, alias Bailyie, my gudshir, to be declaired voyde and ineffectuall in all tyme coming with all that hes followed thairupone, and that he hes the onlie richt to the said estate, or utherwayes your majestie and estates foirsaids wald be pleased to appoynt ane comitte of judicious and conscionable judges to that effect, not so much to consider the strict poyntis and formalities of law, bot rather to proceed and determine in the said matir according to equitie and the law of God and nature albeit the mater be altogether civill concerneing the validitie or invaliditie of richtis to the deceisioune quhairof the lordis of sessioune ar onlie proper judges in the first instance by the institutioune of the colledge of justice and by the 92 act of King James 6, his sext parliament, and divers uthirs actis of parliament, declaireing that the kingis majestie his parliamentis sall have littill tyme and opportunitie to consider his hienes awne effaires and the causis of the comone weill iff at the inopportune sute of privat pairties civill causis properlie belanging to the judgement of the colledge of justice salbe brocht befoir theme. As also that the said Generall Major William Bailyie, alledgit appeirand air foirsaid, is not that pairtie be the lawes of this countrie quha under that name can controvert a mater of the leist moment and much les the estate and liveing of Lammingtoune belanging to me, being ane member of the hous. Lykeas it is without example that the richt that I and uthirs his majesties leidges hes of our estates sould be drawne in questioune in so sumer a way and not befoir the lordis of sessioune as judges ordiner, quhilk is not admissable be the lawis of this countrie. And I aught to have the libertie and comone benefits of justice heirtofoir competent to all his majesties subjectis quha ar ordained to be governed by his hienes lawis. Heirfoir I most humblie beseich your sacred majestie and honorabill estaites of parliament foirsaidis that the said Generall Major Williame Bailyie and any proces he hes anent the said mater may be remitted to the lordis of sessioune, quha ar onlie judges competent to the decisioune of all contraversies of richtis, and thair to persew all actiounes competent or that may be competent to him anent the said estate, befoir quhom I am confident to mak appeire that my and my predicessores richt is undoutted and unquestioneable, and that the said Generall Major William Bailyie hes nether intrest, nor ground to call the samyn in questioune. And craves your majesties and honorabill estates of parliament foirsaid answer.
19 February 1642
Delyverit to Generall Major Bailzie.†
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9 November 1641
Answeris of the commissioneris of the kirk to the observatiounes of the committie, 5 November 1641
We renew our desyre that everie kirk provydit may have ane competent stipend of aucht chalders victuall or 8C merks quhair the treu worth of the teinds of that parochine will extend to the quantatie, and answeris unto the first opinione of the committee which grant the commissioris a latitude to goe beneath that quantatie whensoevir they sall pleis to think reasonabill in kirkis to be provydit. And to the second opinione of the comittie which grants onlie augmentatioune in thrie caisis therinmentioned to kirks alreddie provydit bot beneath that quantatie, we answer primo that we can not conceave any uthair reasone of thes opinions except thes tuo oft objected unto ws: to wit, that some kirks ar so meane that the minister neids not so muche stipend or that the heritors have boght thair teinds and thairfoir cane spair no moir to the minister.
We answer to the first that the stipends of ministeris ar not to be measured so muche by the obscurnes of the place altogither as by ether respects, suche as first that the ministeris live honestlie and be not forced to use husbandrie or uthair imployments unbeseiming thair calling for the necessarie mentinance of thair familie. 2. To provyde competencie of books. 3. To educat thair childrene in learning and vertew. 4. To leave some comfortable provisionne for thair vidows and orphants and not to leave theme to the cold chiritie of the tymes. 5. To use some measur of hospitallitie recommendit by the holy ghost to all ministeris.
To the secund we answer that sieing viij chalders victuall or viijC merks was declared to be the lawest competencie for the mentinance of ane minister as their could be no just reasone to goe beneath it bot deficiencie of teinds and of maitter to be carved on, so quhair their was sufficiencie of teinds, no heretor could be in bona fide to buy the samyn in prejudice of that lawest competencie. 2. Albeit in the former commissions this wes ane expres claus that thes teindis should no farther burdenit, yet the parliament 1633 fend it necessar and the commissioune 1633 did grant augmentatioune notwithstanding thairof far mair now may the kirks not fullie provydit be supplied, sieing thair is no such claus conceaved in the favours of the heritors or the buyers in that commissioune 1633. 3. As the commissioune 1633 did not declair the buyars frie of subsequent burdeins as former commissioune had done, so they did appoynt the teinds to be sold att ane easie rate of nyne yeirs purchase and everie quhair the buyers hes takine thame cum onere of subsequent augmentatiounes as of uthair burdeinis.
2lie, we answer to thes opinions that as the word of God requyreth a compitent mentinence of the ministrie and the law of this kingdome (besyde his majestie manifold declaratiounes) appointed the samyn to be takine out of the teynds of everie paroche quhair they may be had, so the manifold dowllfull experience of many, yea, verie many kirks of Scotland frustrat from that lawest compitence from the former commissiouris under the pretest of that generall caus of finding reasonable and expedient causis, albeit the trew caus was ether the powerfull moyane of the parties or the real hatred of the prelats against the honest incumbents for the tyme, as for instance they have oft appoynted fyve hundreth merks quhair the teinds ar dowble, somtymes triple or quadruple aucht chalders victuall. This dowlfull experience maketh ws justlie to fear the same inconvenient from the renewing of that claus, and to desyre that the parliament wald be pleased to grant that generall reull of aucht chalders of victuall or 8C merks for everie kirk provydit, or to be provydit, and presentlie to condiscend rathair speciallie upon the prelat caises and exceptiounes fra the reull, and to give this commissioune power to revise and consider thes causis that moved the former commissioris to goe beneath that quantitie, that give they be not agrieable to the caices and exceptiounes now to be set doune in parliament, thane thes kirks may be provydit according to the generall reull.
As for the opinion of the comittie anent the not allowing of the chairges of ministeris attending the assemblie and parliament, it is answered that it is contrarie to the opinion of the former comittie sitting the day befoir, contrarie to the judgment and answer of his majestie, commissiour and lords of the articles to the commissiouris of the kirk, contrarie to the promeis of the Erle of Wemys, his majestie commissiour to the lest generall assemblie, and directlie contrarie to the lettre of this parliament directit with the Erle of Cassills to the leatt assemblie at Sanct Andrews.
We can not understand anie reasone why it should be craved that this commissioune may grant recompence for augmentatiounes maid in the former commissione which hes not fund any necessitie or reasone to grant that recompence.
We wald humblie crave sieing tyme straits that the differencis may be determined by the parliament and ordor gevin to the king's advocat and advocat for the kirk to alter the draught of the commissioune conforme to thair determinatiounes.
And becaus tyme so straits we most humblie desyre that the parliament weld be pleised athair be thameselfs to heir our overtours or caus the committie meit for heiring of thame that we may have our answer.
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9 November 1641
Post meridiem, be the nobilitie
Concerning the provisioun of kirkes quhilkis ar not yit provydit be former commissioun:
The commissionaris thinkis meitt that the exceptioun of 16 chalderis victuall or 16C markis be left out:
It is the opinioun of the nobilitie that the commissioners sall have power to go beneth aucht chalders victuall or viijC merkes quhair they sall find just, ressonabill and expedient causis to goe beneth that extent, provyding that if the teyndis of the parochine be saxtene chalders victuall or xvjC merkes or above that they may not modifie ane lesse stipend nor viij chalders victuall or viijC merkes money.
Concerning kirkes quhilkis war provydit be former commissioun, bot gat not the full quantitie of viij chalders victuall or viijC merkes money, or where the bischops war ill affected towardis the present minister for not conformitie:
It is thoght that these kirkes can not come in this new commissioun except allanerlie in the caces of decimis inclusis, wnjust valuatiouns or collusioun as is exprest in the article of the committe.
Item, to advyse with the barrons and burrowes if their salbe prorogatioun grantit for burdings imposit in the yeire of God 1633, as was in the yeire of God 1617 or salbe in the yeire of God 1641.
Item, it is thoght expedient that the article anent the ministers chairges in thair commissiouns salbe remittit to the commissioun to be appointit for ministeris stipendis.
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Supplication Mistres Geichane
To the king's most excellent majestie and estates of this present parlement, the humble petition of Isobell Geichan, in all submissive maner sheweth,
That whereas in anno 1621 yeiris, there being ane sentence of divorce and atheris sentencis purchest against your petitioner at the instance of Williame Cochrane, hir spouse, before the commissioneris of Edinburgh upone sinistrous information and deposition of one onlie witnes suborned and corrupted as salbe maid appear, your petitioner hath by all legall means endevored to be reponed and restored against the same. Lykas for this effect she not onlie in the first sessioun of this parliament did present hir petitioun to your majesties commissioner, bot also presentit to the lords of sessioun severall lettres from your majestie writtin and direct to them for reviewing of the saidis sentences and haill proces and deposition of witnesis, whereupone the samine wer alledgit to have procedit. Bot heerunto your petitioner hath never as yit ressavet any answer or redres, tending now to hir utter rwine and detriment and expres against justice.
And since by reason of the saids sentences and great abuses and subborning of the saids witness usit against your petitioner be her said spous in maner forsaid, she hath miserablie suffered these many yearis bygane in a necessitous way of life,
May it therefore pleas your sacred majestie and estates of parliament in tender consideratioun of the premisis and of your petitioneris present miserable estate to appoynt a comittie of sic persones of the estates of this present parliament as your majestie and estates sall think fitt, for calling before them of us both parties and taking exact tryell and ordour anent the premisis and anent quhat recompens sal be maid to her be her said spous for her bygane mantenance and in tyme cuming during her lyftyme. And for this effect that your majestie and estates wilbe pleased to give warrand to the saids commissioneris to be appoyntit for urgeing and commanding of the clerkis to the said procesis to exhibit and produce befoir thame the samine with the bandis, haill minutes, depositiones of witnesis and haill probatioun had therintill, to the effect the iniquitie of the saidis decreetis being maid manifest and appear your petitoner may be restored againes the samine by ane judiciall sentence reductive in this present parliament. And gif the saidis commissioneris cannot compose the saidis bussinesis according to that whiche they sall find just and equitable, that they with diligence report unto your majestie and estates of this present parliament the true estate thereof with there opinionis anent quhat is lauchfull and necessarie to be done, that therefore your majestie and estates may tak suche farder cours therein as you in your judgementis sall think expedient and the equitie of the caus sall seime to deserve.
And your petitioner as in dewtie bund sall daylie pray for your majesties long and happie regne, and the peace and prosperitie of your majestie and estaitis of parliament.
His majestie is graciously pleased that this petition be redd and considered of in parliament.
Att the court att Holyrudhous, James Galloway, this 9 of November 1641.